Patty Dawson and Others Explain What It's Like to Live in an Area Where Hate Groups Run Wild and the Police Seem to Not Care - ICTMN.com

Nina. what a great observance!! That sounds like itcould possibly be part of the problem, the other part is just hateful ignorance. Sad and scary stuff!

Yes, that study got a lot of play, until SIMILAR studies were done with primates, and the outcomes were VERY different. When monkeys or chimps are forced into crowded conditions, they tend to get MORE social and perform MORE overt acts of grooming and general socializing.

The DIFFERENCE between a primate brain and rat brain and a sophisticated social animal and a simple social animal.

Maybe we should just call individuals like this "rat brains" instead?

This situation is outrageous. It's beyond tragic that skinheads are taking over parts of this country. The Fresno region is not alone in this. Thanks for the post -- we need to keep watch overt this situation. Hopefully, the AG will get involved.

Nina Fox

I read your comment, but I must respectfully challlenge it about world overcrowding possibly being the root cause of such intolerance and racist actions. My intent is not to totally discount what you have said, but I will present another perspective that probably be challenged by somone else.

There huge land masses on this planet that would allow for human beings to live unencumbered and overcrowded.

Simply checking out the land mass that is the state of Texas that is not used for human habitation shows how people choose to lump together and not take a chance on spreading out for the sake of.......whatever reason.

What we see here is this notion that somewhere in the history of human evolution, a certain segment of the white race feels as if they have a right to claim superiority and run roughshod over other people who are different from them.

The fact of the matter, though we are all originally africans, the part of the human race that is white represent only 1/8th of the world's population.

To attempt to carve out and control living space that some of them see as belonging to them is expressed through group intimidation and a lack of true address towards the problems of racism.

Sharon Angle, though this topic is not about her, best expressed the platform of racists who feel as if they own this country by telling us how angry whites will use what they perceive to be their second amendment rights if they cannot have their way in this country.

The shame of it all is that this is the 21st century, and after all the bloodshed of those who are not white who have given their lives to protect America, the racists in this country who have no care for this fact will never give up their notions of white supremacy, or that America is for whites only.

Thank God that the majority of white america and all other americans do not intend to let the haters have their way. We have facts and history to support this reality.

I read your comment, but I must respectfully challlenge it about world overcrowding possibly being the root cause of such intolerance and racist actions.

My implication was not that overcrowding alone is the root cause of racist actions as that can happen anytime/anywhere. I was just merely stating that overcrowding does often create violence in general. Racism is a myopic view of the world.

Way to turn this into a sleight on some other brown folks that you DON'T care for...

pathetic.

Kavika / Mimi -

Absolutely.

Crimes against NA's are barely a "page three" snippet with the front page devoted to hate crimes against illegals, blacks, gays, etc...

It is shameful.

Kavika,
It is true that the press doesn't cover racist acts and hate crimes against NA's the same way they do other minorities. Why do you think that is the case? Is it because (1) The press is abrogating their responsibilities? (2) NA's are sovreign nations and, as such, do not choose to portray themselves as victims as much as others might? (3) Something else?

Rachel

Clovis is not Hanford, or Lemoore, or Bakersfield.

Clovis is a great place to live with excellent schools, upscale neighborhoods, high percentage of professional residents.

Hanford, Lemoore, Bakersfield, Fresno and other cities to the south in the CV - not so much!

Michael- Out of the four you mentioned, I've heard of Bakersfield & Clovis...I've only been to Bakersfield...a hundred years ago. My comment was aimed at what I read in the entire article...and comparing it to "our" Clovis (NM)

Simply, not meant as a dis to any one place or another...

From the article:

Due to increasing gang problems, in December 2010, the city of Clovis approved new policies designed to crack down on white supremacist gangs trying to stake out certain parks in Fresno as new territory, said Clovis Police Captain Vince Leonardo. Police now have more power to prevent gang members from loitering in public places and intimidating passersby.

Clovis is mentioned two more times in the article.

I really don't like people thinking that I make dispersions on anyone or any place, because that is not me.

The police knowing about all of the hate groups in the area can't seem to put two and two together.

As a child, I grew up in Alabama during a time when racism was openly rampant. So rampant that law enforcement officers were also members of the KKK. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the case.

I remember hearing once that the white people were really pi$$ed at the indians for taking thier land before they came to this country.

It's terrible in this country, at this time in history, to still have narrow minded, uneducated, hicks stirring the pot.

Contact a Congressman or Senator-pick a Dem, because you won't get help from the Republicans. Maybe they can get the ball rolling in that area.

This is the best argument for a federal government. Without a federal government which held human rights as sacred, the vote would still be restricted to white men with property.

I actually have an answer for that defense... Wrong tribe.

Hey... if it can work in an EO complaint from a Mexican Hispanic against a Puerto Rican Hispanic...

Having experience in both a place like SC and now being in Seattle I have seen 2 sides.

When I tell people in SC that there aren't racists, white supremacists, klansmen and their parades, rednecks or any of that "southern culture", they refuse to believe it. They think the entire country is just like SC. They think trailer parks and jacked up trucks are the norm. They think people in other places wear real tree camo every day and EVERYONE loves #3.

When I tell people in Seattle that SC still has klan parades and white supremacy types openly displaying their crap they don't believe it. When I tell them that there is a "Redneck Shop" (you can you tube it) a couple miles from my house that sells klan gear (hoods and robes) they don't believe it until I show them. When I tell them I had to play "undercover jew" growing up or get my ass kicked, they don't want to believe it.

Kavika

Yes, it sounded familiar, thanks for keeping us up on it. I was disturbed by the crime, I hope justice will prevail and not travesty.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Kavika,

Disgusted to see this still languishing. Thanks for staying with it.

Thank you for your reply,many people do not know what sundown is about, I have been there. May our grand fathers spirit speak to you. Peace

Is this town the only "sundown town" in California? Let's not pretend that this is an issue that only people of color deal with. There are more than a few neighborhoods around here that you don't go after dark, and a few during the day, if your white. This is not just a white supremicists problem. Problem is, the general public view white hate as somehow different than others. They're all the same white, black , yellow I don't care what anybody says.

Fear of crime is not the same thing as feeling you are a special target because of your heritage or skin color. Racism aimed at the Indigenous has always been around and has less societal taboos against it in our nation.

I don't avoid these places because I'm scared that somebody may rob me. I fear for my safety. These areas are well known. I am a target in these neighborhoods because of my skin color. There are neighborhoods like this in most cities across this nation. And it's all about hate. Hate for whites. Hate for blacks. Hate for native americans ( i do have to say I've never seen this for myself but do believe it exists.). Don't try to diminish it by claiming that another race's hate is stronger. That would be false. Hate is hate no matter how you look at it. And racism is racism. It either is or it isn't.

tea made a relevant point, not off topic. The topic is violence against people because of their race. Tea's point may not be politically correct, but it is true. Speaking from experience here.

My post is on topic. Don't try to narrow peopel down so that only your point of view is supported. I've stated in this thread that this woman deserves justice. I'm actually on your side on this. But let's not narrow the view to just Native Americans. The problem is much larger than that. And it's been an on going problem for as long as I've been able to remember, and I'm 35 years old. Showing people that this problem is much larger will actually help your cause. Not showing them can only hurt it.

Who has said the White man owe anyone? Funny I work with a person who is of Welsh descendant and complain how the English treat the Welsh, their language and customs in England. I understand her position but reminded her who they treated others across the world. Her reply "it is still a wrong."

DNFTT

You attempt at derailing is pathetic, your next post will deleted if you try it again

Oh the CoH that is applied fairly? OK.

In all seriousness what would you say to my seemingly immature assertion that government payments to NA's foster dependency, idleness, and other social problems?

It is true that many of the larger tribes signed treaties with the U.S. government. In exchange for giving up millions of acres of land the government agreed to provide certain services to the tribes in perpetuity. These treaty agreements usually included health care, education and the funds to operate a tribal government. The treaties clearly outlined certain treaty rights to compensate the tribes for the loss of their land. This was not a case of generosity or charity by the United States, but the continuation and the fulfillment of legal and binding treaties.

Let me emphasize this point. What the treaty tribes receive from the federal government cannot be construed as a handout or welfare money. It is the fulfillment of a treaty obligation. The United States became the wealthiest nation in the world off of the land surrendered to it by the Native nations through treaty agreements.

That being said I support the idea of an autonomous and independent nation like the Republic of Lakotah where citizenship would be open to people of all races and to any resident of the land Lakotah claims. The group plans to issue its own passports and driving licenses in the name of the proposed nation. This will remove the oppression and dependency of the colonization apartheid reservation system that has caused nothing more than ill will, ill health along with an abnormal rate of alcoholism within the reservation system. Along with fostering independence this would also fulfill the broken and disingenuous promises of our previous governmental leader's promises of sovereignty and independence. An independent nation would not only benefit the NA populations self-identification but just as importantly it would break the chains of oppression and dependency that does nothing more than extinguishes ones entrepreneurial spirit, self-worth and purpose of living; see slavery.

DNFTT

Now, now ones differences does not necessarily mean that they are a troll. tsk, tsk.

That is where you are wrong it has everything to do with the article, see the bigger issue:

According to the California Attorney General’s Office, no hate crimes against Native Americans were reported in 2011. Part of the problem, says Olin Jones, director of Native American Affairs in the AG’s Office, is that Indian people assume they will not get justice in the judicial system, so they don’t report them.

Read more:http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/02/10/neighbors-in-hoods-97037 http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/02/10/neighbors-in-hoods-97037#ixzz1m2ed3sLv

Too bad they can't declare the hate groups domestic terrorist and ship them all to Gitmo

They could elpkidd but that would cause their political party to lose a large constituency.

You're welcome, Kavika. Thx for your reply...and the story.

One comment: "hate" crime is a joke - in some ways. Is domestic violence a "love" crime?

The fact that Fresno & Clovis PD have had no sensitivity training flies in the face of the national police/law enforcement mandates. Dawson sounds as if she needs a good pro-bono attorney; a simple on-line complaint to the State Attorney General's office would also help.

Except, if you read the article, HER FAMILY has lived there for over 100 years! So WHO should "move away"? No, the police and AG need to DO THEIR JOBS! The victim's family was not the cause of this crime! I am Native, and I was almost Strangled to death in Fresno, and that was about 45 YEARS ago! If the police can't do what they were hired for, they need to be *UN hired*! :-(

Thanks for the follow up Kavika.

Nookomis ♥

The cops can't/shouldn't arrest people just for being pieces of @!$%#. They have to wait till a crime is committed

Crimes against Native Americans HAVE been committed.... and have been ignored, brushed off, or (and this is my favorite) the victim as been asked "What did YOU do to cause this?"

So WHO should "move away"?

I didn't say it was fair. Her other option is to continue living in a town with thousands of nazis.

Crimes against Native Americans HAVE been committed.... and have been ignored, brushed off, or (and this is my favorite) the victim as been asked "What did YOU do to cause this?"

I didn't mean the three people that attacked her. I mean all the other people in town that make it a less then wholesome place to live.

Jave, moving away doesn't solve the problem, it only let's it get worse. The police, DA and the people that live there have to take a stand and stop it. That's the only thing that works.

Good luck having the local people band together to keep foul folk from moving in and changing the community. That kind of stuff is not allowed anymore. If the locals and the cops tried to keep these people from buying homes and moving in it would of got them sued.

According to the article most of the people that live there are the problem newcomers. It sounds like the White racists are the majority and not the minority. There are few places where you can regularly shop wearing klan hoods.

This is not the first place in the US that was a good community until a bad element moved in and changed the neighborhood. There is a point where you cut your losses.

In theory the government could swoop in round up the town folk. In theory the cops can't just start driving people out until they commit a crime. In the real world that means your neighbor is driving a nazimobile and branding his cows with swastikas. Many a White family left their communities when a ghetto element moved in, it's just the American way.

From the article it doesn't sound like new folk vs old folk. It sounds like the old folk left already. What the woman does is her choice. Holding your ground, gun in hand sounds cool. I'm not sure it's worth the bother. Neighborhoods change, it sucks sometimes.

So WHY, Kavika, is nothing being done about the problem. No, I was not trying to denigrate or laugh at it. I honestly thought the only two problems California faced were millions of illegal Latino immigrants and the crimes by them and their anchor babies the offspring of those infamous anchor babies. As well as the Liberal "thinking" California is so noted for.

I have know some Native Americans whom I worked with -- good people. Intelligent and hard working. NOT the stereotypical drunkards portrayed in Hollywood and fiction. So why are Native Americans victimized by hate groups, I wonder.

So why are Native Americans victimized by hate groups, I wonder.

Unenlightened people will hate/fear what/who they don't know or understand. Education would help eliminate some of that, but you can't educated people who don't want to be educated.

So why are Native Americans victimized by hate groups, I wonder

Because they can get away with it. If they were to go after any other ethnicity in this country the way they do Native Americans the feds and DOJ would have them caught, tried and sentenced before a wave of public outcry across the nation, and it would be the lead story in every major news outlet.

What happened to Patty Dawson, the Bonitas and other Native Americans like them isn't even being covered except in specialized NA media.

Two twelve year old kids were charged with a hate crime because, on the playground, they tried to pull the headscarf off a Muslim girl. And they are saying they don't have sufficient evidence that Patty's attack was a hate crime???

Kavika,
I taught my children to know that, if they are unhappy with their life, they have two choices: elevate your own life or bring everyone else down to your level of misery. Humans choose the former, animals in human skin choose the latter. I say that without regard to race or ethnicity. We are almost all human.

I'd disagree with that statement. I'd also say that the only reason you think it's on the rise is because racism is the first thing people claim since Obama entered the office of President. But, of course, if you can back up your statement with statistics, I'd gladly eat my words.

Here is a good place to start.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120715771

Still, the data show a 2 percent overall increase in hate crimes over the previous year, and a rise in each individual category, with one exception: attacks based on ethnic bias or national origin. Crimes based on racial hatred made up the largest number of reported incidents. Last year, agencies across the U.S. reported 3,992 incidents in which someone was victimized because of race — a 3 percent increase from 2007.

Heidi Beirich, director of research at the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center, said she expected to see an increase in the targeting of African-Americans because of the uptick in hate group activity before the election of President Obama.

"The anti-black numbers jumped around the elections, but we know that doesn't reflect anywhere near what [the figures] actually are," said Beirich. She said experts have noted inconsistencies in some jurisdictions, such as the relatively small number of hate crimes reports in Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi, where there is a large black population and a history of racial intolerance.

Blacks have historically been the most frequently targeted group. The FBI report showed 73 percent of the victims of race-based hate crimes were black.

Thank you elpkidd!

Have you read this yet teatastesgood?

Elpkidd beat me to the punch.

Oh, and start eating!!! You've a heaping helping in front of you. Bon apetit!

Three Crow Recipes

JK ;)

You're stated facts are from 2009. Obama took office in 2009. Give me some facts that back up your claim that they are on the rise since obama took office. According to your article, they were on the rise in 2007, well before he took office. I got that from your own article.

I didn't bring it up. I responded to another post. If you don't like where the discussion is heading, direct your comments to the original poster. Otherwise, I will respond to it. I have the right to refute statements made. If you don't like it, I don't know what to tell you.

Got plenty of time since I've been laid off from work, need to do something.

Bless your heart! I'm hoping things will look up for you soon elpkidd and thanks for your help. Keep your chin up!

Not worried about it. I'm over 60, have my home and car paid for, got money in the bank, a 401k that is doing pretty good for now and except for diabetes type 2 in good health and was planning on retiring next Christmas anyway.

Accepted

VL and Kavika, I know exactly what you're talking about. I live in the south and down here they're still fighting the civil war. We've got street names of Confederate Street, Plantation Road, etc. Like I'd actually want to live on either of those streets/roads. That is a heritage that I would NOT be proud of enough to name streets and roads after. The insensitivity of people should not still amaze me, but it does.

Shelby: that's interesting because when I visited a relative in Kentucky, I had sort of the same feelings when the locals kept bragging about the "slave walls".

As for the "Redskins", Washington is NOT the Nation's CapitOl. (HINT: That's Washington DC, on the opposite end of the country.)

"Redskins", Washington is NOT the Nation's CapitOl.

Sometimes it is definitely better to remain quiet and be thought a fool, than to speak up and ...